Home › Programs › Past Programs › Parallel and Crossover Lives › Jarvis interview transcripts › Ms. Jewell McCalla
Interview with Ms. Jewell McCalla
Date: June 13, 2001
Interviewed by Tracy Caradine
TC: My name is Tracy Caradine. I am the Director of Library Services at Jarvis Christian College. Today I will be interviewing Mrs. Jewell McCalla, and today’s date is Wednesday, June 13, 2001.
Ms. McCalla, I guess I should begin by asking you to give me a little background information about yourself.
JM: Thank you. My name is Jewel McCalla, and I live in the Fouke-Hawkins community. I live not far from where I was born. I live here all of my life. I am married, I have a husband.
TC: Do you have any children?
JM: No, I do not have any children.
TC: No children. And you have lived in this area your entire life?
JM: Yes, I have lived here my entire life.
TC: Was your husband from here?
JM: No, just sixteen miles up the road from Mineola, Texas. Of course, this is my second husband. My first husband was also from Mineola, Texas.
TC: Were your parents born here?
JM: Yes, my parents were born here. They were from families of eleven each. My father had eleven brothers and sisters, and my mother had eleven brothers and sisters. Both parents are dead, and all of their sisters and brothers have passed on. My parents had two children, a boy and a girl. Of course, my brother died in ’84.
TC: You are the only one still here?
JM: Yes.
TC: By your parents being from this area, what type of work did they do?
JM: They were farmers. They had nothing to depend on but the farm because their parents lived here and was farmers. Of course, their parents, I would say, lived in a neighborhood where they worked with each other. There might have been some families a little better off than my parents, and they would be hired to help, and that was the way they had of accumulating some funds to keep us going.
TC: The community in which you lived, was it all black?
JM: No, it wasn’t all black, and I can say that was one of the drawing cards that we had. The white families that was in our community was so nice and so friendly. They shared so many things with my family.
My father, when very small, would go spend nights with some white people. Their names were Ray. From that, the Rays always had a lot to say and do with the Richard family, that is where I came from.
Until today, one of our cemeteries was given to us, the land was given to us, by the Ray family. Of course, we have changed the name now because the whites have their cemetery. It is Ray, but ours is [unclear] cemetery.
TC: So you all had a pretty good relationship with your white neighbors?
JM: Oh, yes, we did. Very good.
TC: As a child, even, were you really conscious of the other surroundings areas where communities were all black and all white, were you really conscious of the idea that your community was sort of integrated?
JM: No, I wasn’t conscious of that. It had no impression on me. I don’t know why but I just didn’t have that on my mind.
TC: You didn’t pay it any attention.
JM: Didn’t pay it any attention until I got into school and I began to read books and hear stories and we finally got a radio and later a TV. Then it was brought to my attention.
TC: So you thought that everybody’s community was like yours?
JM: Yes, everybody’s, that’s right.
TC: What school did you attend for elementary school?
JM: Elementary school was located right in the community where I lived. In those days, we had Rosenwald schools, they were called. I guess it was a man or company that funded the money for those schools to be built, because all of them was built the same way—you know, the same style. And that is where I went to school until, I guess, well, until we decided to consolidate.
TC: That was elementary, the Rosenwald School?
JM: The Rosenwald School was an elementary school. And of course, when I finished that to go off to high school, I had to come to Jarvis campus, because in this Wood County, the high school was the only one, I guess, in the county, but it was nearest to me. I spent a year, maybe two, at the high school on the campus.
TC: Here at Jarvis?
JM: At Jarvis. Then I finished high school and I just walked across the road and got in college.
TC: Here also at Jarvis?
JM: At Jarvis.
TC: At the time that you attended elementary, high school at Jarvis, and college at Jarvis, integration had not happened then?
JM: No, integration had not happened then. We were far from it. We knew nothing of it. We had our little black schools and our white schools. We were in the Fouke community.
But as I say, when we decided to consolidate, the black school in the Fouke community consolidated with the school in town, but it was black.
TC: It was still all black?
JM: Yes. That is where we call ourselves the Fouke-Hawkins High School. That is what we did.
TC: Now, you say that it was called the Fouke-Hawkins High School?
JM: After we consolidated, Fouke-Hawkins. But Hawkins had their white school, which was on the west side of town, and the blacks had their black school, which was just across the track on the south side of town.
TC: As you attended college at Jarvis, what was your major?
JM: My major was education, because when I grew up, as I said, my parents were farmers, and I had to work on the farm, and I didn’t care for that, and I said to myself, and my father said that he wanted me to be able to take care of myself.
So when I was ready to come to college, he was on the farm, and he grew pigs and hogs, and he would sell them, and that would give him money that he could pay my tuition. And, of course, he loaded me into the wagon and brought me to Hawkins, and I lived with a family just below town, the Gibsons, and I walked to Jarvis each morning to school.
TC: So your major was education and you became a teacher?
JM: I became a teacher as soon as I could —you know, yes.
TC: As soon as you finished at Jarvis?
JM: Yes.
TC: During the pre-initial and also the post-integration periods, what schools did you teach at here in Hawkins?
JM: I was able to get a job at Hawkins. I guess it must have begun in the Fouke Community, but we soon consolidated. I was placed at Hawkins, and some of the teachers that came over didn’t, wasn’t hired, but I was hired at Hawkins, and I worked there. Of course, I might be going a little beyond what you would like to know, but when we integrated, I still worked at Hawkins.
Of course, after we integrated with the white school, we had to have more room, so we renovated our self. We rebuilt, and I was carried over. So to make a long story short, I spent forty-four years in the classroom, but all of those forty-four years were spent in Wood County at Hawkins, Texas.
TC: You taught in the all-black high schools?
JM: Yes.
TC: Then once it integrated, you were still teaching in the integrated high school?
JM: That’s right.
TC: Now, speaking of the all-black high school, the Fouke-Hawkins High School, describe the location and the physical condition of that high school.
JM: The location, as I say, it was on the south side of town, but we were blessed with a principal that loved to go out and contact and get the best for us as a black school, T. H. Burton, and we had, I would say, a good school. We had good buildings, we had good buses to ride in. We had good teachers—I mean, they were well-trained for us.
TC: The physical condition of the building, was it kept up by the people that taught there, or did the same people that kept up the grounds at the white school, did they also come over to take care of the grounds at the black school?
JM: No, we had our own custodians, I would say. Our first integration with a teacher, seemed like they put one white teacher in our school, just one, and they called that integration. [Laughter] His name was Bird. Of course, I remember him. For a long time he was just -- but he was a good teacher, and he seemed to have adjusted to us, and we adjusted to him.
But as time went on, I finally became director of a reading lab, which was called the Hawthorne program. Then my aides were white, because I was the certified teacher in that area.
TC: What type of relationship did you have with your white aides?
JM: Very good, very good, very good. I was just telling someone today that, where I’m doing volunteer work, one of my students came in, and he said, “Aren’t you Ms. McCalla?” And I say, “Yes.” He says, “I remember you.” I said, “Oh, you do? Why?” He said, “you were my teacher in elementary school.” I said, “Oh, well, what is your name?” He said, “Snyder.” He said “We had those computer labs.” But it wasn’t computer then. It was a little machine that you put on earphones and you had to put a little record in there, and you would listen to the story, and you had your book in front of you, answer the questions, and all of that. We had nothing about a computer then. But he said he remembered me. And I guess he talked for about fifteen minutes, and he said, “You were a good teacher then.” He was white, of all things, he was white. He complimented my looks, and my health conditions, and my ability to handle children. He did that just this morning, June the 13th, 2001. [Laughter]
TC: Well, a good teacher is a good teacher, no matter what color he or she might be. Estimating, what was the student population at the all-black high school?
JM: Just estimating, I am sure that we had 500-plus, I would say, maybe more or less. But I really don’t know how many teachers we had. But our load was not over—well, some of us might have had more than 20. But how many teachers, I have forgotten that now. But we had a teacher for every grade, I know, and maybe we had some special, like homemaking, shop.
TC: So students, at that time, children, were really attending school?
JM: That’s right.
TC: Was there a push from maybe the community churches and other organizations, black organizations, to really get black children in school?
JM: Now what we had to offer the children was what they liked. We had a huge choir. Children liked to sing, and they performed beautifully. And of course, our basketball team and our tennis teams were tops. But I don’t think we played any football, I don’t remember playing football as a black school. We could have. But I remember basketball and tennis and singing and homemaking and shop, cause those were the things we offered the children. See, with the shop, parents got a chance to come participate, helping the children with their stock, getting their pigs ready for showing, all of that.
TC: Okay, wonderful. We know that the racial makeup of the student population was all black at this particular school. What was the racial makeup of the staff?
JM: Well, as I said before, it was finally integrated, but when we really got down to getting into things, we leveled off. They tried to place us equally.
TC: Aside from that one white teacher?
JM: Yes, we got into more with the blacks.
TC: Were the majority of the teachers at the all-black school, were they from this area, the Hawkins-Fouke area?
JM: No. They came from Hare [phonetic] Texas, from Houston, from Longview, and then some from this area, and from Tyler. That was about where most of them came from, because I was here, and I stayed here. I was one of the persons that was born and reared here and was able to stay in the classroom.
TC: So you didn’t have teachers as they do today, commute from nearby towns? If they were from other towns, such as Houston, did they just move and make a home here in Hawkins?
JM: Yes, and it seemed like they had a policy. And it seemed like they offered them a bonus if they chose to live here. Seems that they did. I didn’t get in on every board meeting, and not being one of those teachers that would have to commute, but seems that they offered them a bonus, I know they would take their children and give their children a chance to attend school here, because there were some teachers that lived in Tyler and they brought their children here to go to school.
TC: As a first-year teacher, if you can remember, your very first year of teaching, what was your beginning salary?
JM: Oh, I clearly remember that. Because in the community where I lived. What did we call them? They weren’t—what were they called? But some people had to pay those people so they could have a job. But I never did pay a person that I could teach. But my first salary was $63. But I didn’t give any of that to any one.
TC: Was that per month?
JM: That was per month. Sixty-three dollars. [Laughter]
TC: Do you think that the first-year white teachers, do you think that they were making more than $63 a month?
JM: I really believe the time that I got in, I think we were all making about the same, because, as I said before, I could hear of people having to give—I don’t know why I can’t think of what they were called, those men—some money just to keep them going. But all of us had about the same salary at that time.
TC: How did you receive textbooks and teaching supplies, and did you get enough of both of them?
JM: As teachers, I guess, do now, we had to give a report of what we would have to use maybe for another year, you know, make a record, get the book and order it, put in an order. That was before we consolidated. Sometimes it seemed like the county didn’t have—because it seemed like we depended on the county to help us with that, and we didn’t have as much as we were supposed to have had.
I don’t know. At that time, it might have been that the whites had more than we had. But we had books, and sometimes we would look at the books, and they had been used, the books that we got had been used. And that said, I guess they were given to the whites before they came to our school.
TC: When you received books that were used, were they current books or were they a few years old?
JM: Most of them were, I would say, current. They might be two years late, but they were practically new.
TC: Still usable?
JM: Usable, that’s right.
TC: Can you describe the school curriculum of the all-black school? What types of subjects were students required to take?
JM: I know there were some basic subjects they had to take, but just now I can’t name all of them. I know math was one of the requirements, and English, and they had to make sure that they had homemaking, I think. But just being an elementary teacher, I really don’t know. I didn’t have any dealings with selecting all of that and working into that area.
TC: Do you think that the students at the white high school were required to take the same classes as the students at the black high school?
JM: I think they were. But to me, it seemed to me that we did more doing like singing. We had more extra activities to keep us going, than they did. I don’t remember them having a tennis group as well as ours, and I don’t remember them having some other things that we had. But as I said, our principal tried to get the best for us and tried to get as many activities for us that he could.
TC: Do you think that he did those things in an effort to try to make up for some of the things that students were lacking at home?
JM: I think he did, I certainly do. I think he did. And you did mention what the churches did. Our community, I can say, has suffered for ministers that had an interest in the school. Now, sometime we would get one or two that had that in mind, but our children really needed more religious guidance in their younger days than they did get. Of course, I was brought up in church, but I know some areas was loose with that.
TC: Do you remember any type of standardized tests that was administered to the black students?
JM: I remember the word test and I remember testing, but just to recall what we had to do and how we did it—I know I had papers to grade.
Now we have this test that they must—must--pass. But it seemed that we didn’t have anything as strenuous as that, not to my knowledge. There could have been, but I don’t remember.
TC: Do you think there was one that they must pass at the white school?
JM: Well, I don’t remember that either. But I don’t remember too many children failing, and sometime if one failed, they would say that he just didn’t apply himself, and I could see that in many cases, where children just failed because the parents didn’t push them. Some parents kept the children out to wash or to help them do some other type of work.
TC: In the few cases where students did fail, it was basically a result of the parent involvement? Whatever the parent needed for them to do at home interfered with school?
JM: Yes, that is it. To my knowledge, that is what it was, because so many—I had a family that had to keep the children out to wash. And some would carry their children to the cotton patch in the fall, and that threw them behind.
TC: Today, teachers across the grades and throughout the school districts sort of interact with each other in an effort to solve common problems. At any time, did you have the opportunity, even though you were a teacher at the black school, did you have the opportunity to interact with any white teachers?
JM: Yes, because we had workshops at the school, and we would join in going to workshops. I remember us having to go to Kilgore. That was kind of a center for us to get material from and get information, and we would go as groups, you know, white and black, go together.
TC: This was before integration?
JM: Yes, I believe it was before integration.
TC: So you did have a chance to get together?
JM: Yes, we did, because our superintendent was white, and he would come and give us information where we could go as a group to workshops.
TC: Now, specifically relating to the period of integration, that transition period and after integration, were the black teachers at the black school, upon integration, were they given the opportunity to transfer to the now-integrated high school?
JM: Yes, they were. And they tried hard to place all of us, I’ll say, when we integrated. But some of us chose to do other things. But the majority, I think that first year they must have worked us all in. Because it was a sad, sad day when we decided to, you know, integrate, and we had to pick up and go. Because, I remember working in the classroom, and it was the fourth grade, and Ms. Green and I, Ms. Green was white and I was black. We were in the fourth grade together. We had the same room. I don’t know how we did it, but that’s the way it was.
TC: Those teachers that chose not to transfer or were not given the opportunity to transfer, what did they do to find work?
JM: Some of them took advantage of it and went to their home, got a job closer—well, maybe a better job. But that is what happened to some.
TC: Did they stay in the field of teaching?
JM: Yes, most of them stayed in the field of teaching.
TC: The transition period, was it a difficult time, and how did you feel during this time?
[Begin Tape 1, Side B]
TC: Maybe you didn’t know what to expect at this new integrated school?
JM: I think we were all anxious, I really don’t know how we felt, but for some reason, the carryover, it was real good. What happened after we consolidated, then we had to have a new school. The blacks had to have a new school, and they built us a brand-new school across the track. I believe that is what happened. We had the good school. So they wanted to come. So that made integration real good then. We had the new school, and that is what made it so easy.
TC: Made the transition an easier process?
JM: Very easy, that’s right.
TC: Were the black and white teachers evaluated using the same evaluation instrument?
JM: Yes, and would you believe that they call it the career ladder, and they chose different teachers to be on this career ladder to help evaluate some of the teachers. I was one of the black teachers that was appointed or asked to be on this career ladder to evaluate the teachers. But it was a must-not-tell that I am here. I had to go and listen—well, just do my job—but I was always with members of the group that was being evaluated; that was, I was going to have to evaluate. And I never dreamt at one time that I was on the team.
Of course, when we went and we helped evaluation and came back, then they found out that I was one of the ones. They said, “If I had known.” Well, they was talking about how they would bribe me, you know. They were pleased with what went on, but I didn’t add neither subtract. I just told what I thought.
TC: Being one of the people on the evaluation team, the instrument that you used, do you think it was fair to both black and white teachers?
JM: I do. I believe it was fair.
TC: It wasn’t biased one way or the other?
JM: No, it wasn’t.
TC: As far as the textbooks and supplies, once you were into the integrated school, did black and white teachers receive the same quality and amount of supplies and materials?
JM: I believe we did, because I never was short of anything. It seemed like we got what we ordered, or we didn’t have to be making out, of course maybe further down the line, they began to talk about oil because we were dependent on oil quite a bit for our revenue to come into the classroom. I guess the price of oil was fluctuating, they would say something about our supplies. But most of the time, we had, I hope we didn’t waste, but we had [unclear] to work with.
TC: You seem to have had a pretty good relationship with the white teachers once integration took place.
JM: Yes, we did.
TC: Do you feel that the white teachers gave the black students in their classrooms the same amount of attention that they gave to the white students in their class?
JM: I believe they did. I don’t remember a case where, we as teachers, had problems. Now, there were some problems, because I had some problems with one or two white, but I had the support of the community of white that would have confidence with me and talk, and I did appreciate those people.
I had white parents that came and told me about their children. I think, well, today, I know there were three white girls—through the years, we would exchange birthday cards and different things. I believe two of those girls are still living but one had gone off. But we had a good relationship.
TC: Was it difficult at any time, maybe at the beginning of the integration period, was it difficult to gain the respect of the white students?
JM: It wasn’t for me. The others might have had problems, but I didn’t. I didn’t encounter any problems with them.
TC: Why do you think that was so? Was it just because of the kind of person you are?
JM: I don’t know. At that time, you know, we could use corporal punishment. And I had this, they said, this strap, this paddle that I would use. And I didn’t have any problems with it. They respected it. And of course, today they come by and say, “I wish that my children could have a little of what you gave me, because it certainly did help.” I didn’t try to scar up anyone, but the things I said and what I did, they knew I meant it.
TC: It applied to black students as well as white?
JM: As well as white. That’s right. But I tried to use that as little as I possibly could. But it worked.
TC: At any time that you have had to use corporal punishment with a white student, were there any repercussions?
JM: Never, because after we integrated, sometime we would have someone to be a witness for us. Sometimes we would carry them to the principal’s office, and he would be the, you know, the witness, but that worked out real good for me; now, I am just talking for myself.
TC: Were black students recognized for high academic achievement in the integrated school?
JM: They were, but they really had to work for it because there were sometimes—of course, I wasn’t up at the head where you had to make these choices—but sometimes people would have words to say that “I think so-and-so should have had that award.” But most times, children came up with what they got.
Seems to me we were running this Miss Hawkins contest, and I think the way it vanished from the row was about three consecutive years the Miss Hawkins was black. That did away with—you know what I am trying to say.
TC: They stopped having the Ms. Hawkins contest because—
JM: Seemily, I won’t say that to be positive, but I know it played out on one of our black students as Miss Hawkins, and she was where she was supposed to be. Right now she has finished Virginia. She has gone and is working on something in North Carolina or something, but she is still Miss Hawkins.
TC: She was the last Miss Hawkins?
JM: I believe she was. I can be corrected, but I’ll have to see the names and the data.
TC: So, in general, if a black student achieved high in academics, they were recognized for it?
JM: They were recognized. Just for the fun of it, I went to the high school graduation this year. I was very pleased with what the blacks were receiving on the night of graduation. They were well recognized in their achievements.
TC: During the time of integration, all of the awards and memorabilia from the old black high school, did it follow those students to the new integrated high school, or what became of those
JM: I think that all of that—like trophies and whatnot—I think it followed them. I think it did, because we had a whole showcase, well, just a lot on display.
TC: In the integrated school?
JM: Yes, in the integrated school.
TC: Did their school song follow, or did they create a new school song?
JM: No, we must have created a new school song. And I know they was singing the school song the other night. It was different from—well, there are so many things that they don’t do now that we did. But I know our school song did not follow, Fouke-Hawkins school song stayed at Fouke-Hawkins. It didn’t integrate.
TC: What became of that old building, the Fouke-Hawkins High School?
JM: The old building was torn down. Because, you know, I said they built us a new school, and we had moved over into our new school when we integrated. I think we integrated in ‘56—when was it—along about that time. And we had moved into that, and that old building was torn down.
TC: I have often heard the old Fouke-Hawkins high school referred to as the Hawkins Colored High School. Was that an official name, or was that just a name?
JM: That was an official name. It was the Hawkins Colored High School when we were in Fouke; but then when we came, that is what got it to the Fouke-Hawkins school, because they had a school here, just like we had a school in Fouke, and it was the colored school, Hawkins Colored School.
TC: So upon the two schools combining, then the name was changed to Fouke-Hawkins.
JM: To Fouke-Hawkins.
TC: During the period of integration, did you think that integration helped or harmed education for black students?
JM: It helped in one area, and I guess it harmed maybe a little in another. But to me, it helped, because we were exposed to a variety of people, but where the harm came in, there were some activities that we were doing or carrying on that was discontinued, and I know tennis was one and choir was another. They discontinued that. I was told a few months ago that they had brought singing back into the classroom.
Of course, tennis is being played, but we don’t have people going and making matches. Because our group, when we were in the black school, had a chance to play with Arthur Ashe and the Gibson girl because my brother would drive—well, I don’t know if they went on the bus or what—but he would drive them to where they were having these tennis matches, and the children were exposed to this.
TC: What do you think the black teachers lost, and what do you think they gained with integration, for the teachers?
JM: Well, I gained, it gave me—well, my work became easy because when we began to consolidate and all that, they found out that I was qualified to supervise this area, and that really made my work easy, because I had no register to keep and no papers to grade, nothing to carry home like some of the other, so to me that is why I worked as long as I did, because teaching was an easy job.
TC: After integration?
JM: After integration it was easy for me. That’s right. Now, the question was—what did you say about the others?
TC: What did teachers lose and what did they gain?
JM: Well, I gained. I gained. I gained confidence. And my salary went up, up, up. [Laughter]
TC: Okay. Then that was a definite gain. You don’t feel as if you lost anything?
JM: No, I don’t think I lost anything. And my friends were just multiple, multiple, because with the integration I gained friends that I didn’t have.
TC: So integration boosted your career as well as the friendships?
JM: That’s right, it did. I guess on retirement, I went in that year telling that this is my last year to work, and they got together as a group, and they decided that they were going to make me a quilt. And when they came, they had that quilt ready for me. It is forty-two blocks in the quilt. Forty-two people, different people, wrote their name, and gave their version of what I was doing in this. It is amazing. I carried the quilt home.
I didn’t know what I wanted to do with the quilt. One year I kept it on, because the first thing I bought when I retired was an organ, just to keep myself contented. And I put the quilt over that, and I didn’t like that. I carried it to my bedroom and put it on top of the bed. I didn’t like that. Finally, I had a wall in the house, and that is where that quilt hangs today. It is a part of my wall in my living room. I hung that quilt on the wall. As the days go by and people come in, I point to the quilt and the names of the people that’s there.
TC: So you were welcomed at this integrated school, and I get the impression that it was an enjoyable place for you?
JM: Oh, it was very enjoyable, very enjoyable. And during those years of integration, we formed some kind of a little band. We would go to Longview for dinner as a group, or they had some places out in the country, they were club houses. We would go out there as a group with our Christmas parties and all, but the last, after I retired, I don’t hear the teachers doing that anymore. They might, but I was just sharing with him what I did before we went to Dallas for something to a theater, party, or show, or something, when we were integrated. We had a good time there.
TC: Do you feel that maybe those things occurred because black and white teachers had been separated, and it was just a getting-to-know-you type of thing going on there?
JM: That’s right. You see, the whites had a chance to go to a lot of these places. We didn’t have a chance to go, because, you know, we didn’t have the chance to go to the schools, the uni-, you know, because Jarvis we just had—but when I got a chance to go to East Texas State, I went just for workshops each summer.
I think since they had been exposed to this, they wanted us to share, and they carried us, they made it possible for us to go to these different places. You know, because some places we weren’t allowed to go. We had to go in the back door. But not when we integrated.
TC: It opened the door for a lot of different experiences that had been previously denied?
JM: Yes.
TC: One question that I did not ask of the black school, but upon integration, were the parents of the black students active in the PTA?
JM: Yes, most of them were active in PTA, and that helped a lot for them to be.
TC: The relationship of the black church and the school, did that change with integration?
JM: No, I don’t believe it did. Seemed like we just kept on going to our little black churches, and they kept on going to theirs. Some of us did join. But in the summer, we would have vacation Bible school, and we would have that together, I mean blacks and whites.
TC: Overall, what do you think was the greatest accomplishment of integration?
JM: The greatest accomplishment of integration, I think, is giving us a chance to walk side-by-side with fellow co-workers and expose us to jobs when we didn’t have that opportunity before, and to live in places that we were denied. I guess that was it, but what I said then and I said now, it must be something, it does have to be something on the inside of a person that will make them go farther, and not boasting or bragging, but I still have that, “I want to do something else,” and, “I want to help someone else.” You’ve got to have it from within. When you get the opportunity to go to these places, you take advantage of it and go.
TC: Now, my final question, even though segregation is unlawful today, do you think that black students can safely, and I underline “safely,” that black students can attend any school that they so desire, be it private, public, or academy.
JM: I believe they can safely attend any school; that is, if they keep their head up. I was looking on TV last night at the little boy that finished. He had a problem, and his mother kept digging, and she wasn’t pleased with where he was going, and she put him in another school. And he graduated with honors, and he wasn’t hurt. He was safe, he was protected. I believe we can do it. I believe we can.
I feel good when I go to town, but, of course, we know this is a mean, mean world that we live in, but as blacks, I believe if we hold our head right and keep our eyes open and our mouths shut until it is time to open it, we can make it.
TC: Ms. McCalla, I thank you, and I really enjoyed the interview.
JM: Thank you, and I’ve enjoyed it too.
[End of interview]